Baskaran ,
God is in Idol form also. Formless is also God. This means that God is everywhere. We can not show any place where God is Not. Vallalar told this in his songs also. We can not see anything when we are in darkness. Darkness represents ignorance of Truth. Light represents knowledge of Truth. Jothi represents Light. Worshipping Light can enlighten us.
K. Ganesan

Jothi - Light
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
* It is one of the PANCHA BOODA's.
* Powerful Source(sun) becoz of which we all live. Applicable for all living beings.
* It is formless(as heat) and it takes form also.
Vallalar prefers jothi way. He ask us to have belief in it
and follow it. Later we will get to know God's real form he added.
This will happen in further ENLIGHTENMENT(anubavam-tamil).

Thanks Ganesan and Senthil.
Ganesan:Your response answers my question in part.I am sure Sanmarga leaders or followers in this forum can dwell more deeper on this topic.
Thanks for your time again.

Jothi isn't symbol for anything.
Jothi is Jothi. As the world manifests from God-light, different forms of light occur in different realms. Light in this world is manifestation of Grace light.
Thereis the light inside your being and the light outside, bioth are forms of Grace light. It isn't symbol; it is reality to be recgnized.
Also, look at the scientific information regarding full-spectrum light and the pineal gland. Some say say pineal gland is the third eye in the physical body. We know pineal gland controls the pituitary gland, which in turn controls the entire endocrine system. The pineal gland is stimulated by full-spectrum light. So whe one gazes at Jothi in candle of the Sun, then it is charged up.
It is a great mistake to think Jothi is a symbolof Vast Grace light, or that Vast Grace light is something completely separate from ordinary light.
Vallaalr says:
The Divine Light shines in four levels, the inmost, inner, outer and the outermost. In Pinda, the human system, anma, the soul is the inmost, and its consciousness knows the truth of a thing; jeevan is the inner being and its consciousness knows the use of a thing; the outer is the instrumental nature, karana, and its consciousness knows by discrimination of mind about the name and form, and qualities, good or bad, of a thing; the outermost is of the bodily sense organs-Indriyas such as eye, and its perceptive knowledge is to perceive a thing by perception without mental discrimination as to the name, form and qualities good or bad of the thing. Similarly there can be visions seen by the inmost soul, the inner jeevan, and by the outer instrumental being. So too in Anda the universal Nature, Agni is the inmost, sun the inner, moon the outer, and stars the outermost…Now the causal manifestation (Karana) of the divine Light takes place in Pinda the human body, at Ajna, the mid centre between the eyebrows; and for Anda the universal, in Paramakasa, the supreme Ether of Sky or Space. The causal-effectual manifestation (Karya-Karana) takes place in Sarvayoni, i.e. in the Womb of all created beings and things in the bindu of lightning and in the nada of thunder.”

Dear Brothers!
Shri. Hunter has explained the actual words of our Vallalar beatifully.
Aham, Ahappuram, puram and Purappuram were the four elements control the whole Universe which also understandable in our body itself. In our ancestors words Andam is equal to Pindam. Vallalar also agree this concept and explains in his prose order.
Once again thanks for Mr. Hunter words which disclose that he is very much impressed with our Vallalar words.
Jothi is mere a symbol and it cannot be understood as God. Only for mind concentration jothi light can be used. After geting the concentration outer lamp jothi will not help to go inner.
This path is accepted by our Vallalar due to certinity and easily practiseable.
Thanks and Regards
Vallalar Thiruvadigale Saranam.
Sundara Kannan

Dear Sundara Kannan,
Yes, outer lamp Jothi is only for mind concentration. Our mind never stays at one place. Our mind always jumps here and there much faster than a monkey.
The toughest job to anyone is to keep the mind in silence. We all think that doing something is an achievement but staying for sometime doing nothing is real achievement. All meditation techniques strive to quiet the mind only. Meditation is nothing but starting to stay in one place for a while physically and at the end making the mind stay still like our body does. Concentrated mind gets tremendous energy. Any thing we do with concentrated mind ends always in great success.
All treasures are within us already. We don’t have to go anywhere. We don’t have to ask/beg anyone. Our Vallalar never had anyone as His guru. He never declared Himself as Guru to anyone either. He sat and went within Him and enjoyed all treasures. His major final advices to us are here below.
1. Meditate
2. Ask within yourself
Our Vallalar kept on be telling and doing all He can for our realization also.
We shouldn’t get stuck with where we are now. We should keep moving forward. We all know about different levels in any path. Beginner’s level ends in mind concentration. Once we get our mind concentrated, we have to then move forward to Advance level by going inner into us for realization.
Ganesan

I am not sure Jothi is just to gain stability of mind.
Therei s this practice of Trataka in yoga. Is this what you mean, to gaze at candle to gain some stabilty and quiessence? This usually used as step of pratyahara entering dharana, yes.
Why you think Vallalar didn't want us to worship Jothi?
Jothi is external support for meditation and also for worship. We meditate on inner eye to see subtle Jothi. But gazing at external Jothi is very powerful method, not just preliminary.
I say physical light-Jothi is manifestation of Vast Grace-Jothi in our world, external.
Is dualistic view to think that internal light is superior to external. When all flowers and plantlife on planet grow toward my third eye rather than toward the sun...then I will think so too.
External and internal are equal. Space of Gnansabbhai is the space of our world before our eyes. They are balance. This is non-dual view.
Vast Grace Light isn't somewhere else. Not up in heaven. Why does Vallalar talk so much about atom? He says Lord is in core of every atom, inner essence of material sunbstance, not somewhere beyond it.
If Jothi is just for beginners....explain why Vallaalr used lamp to bring Arutperunjothi to manifestation in this world?
Jothi isn't symbol or mere tool. Jothi is worshipped because Jothi is manifestation of Grace Light in external world and vehicle for God Himself to manifest here. When we pray to Jothi lamp, then God can manifest here. I have seen Vallalar appear in candle flame and sit there for more than three days, any which way i looked at lamp, from far off or even up close. A seated yogi inside a large bindu on lamp.

Dear Hunter Garrett,
Worship has four steps.
Seeing
Saying
Feeling
Merging.
Jothi can be used for one or for all four steps of worship. Saying is meaningless without seeing. Feeling is possible only after seeing and saying. Merging is the ultimate goal of worship.
Ganesan

Dear all,
Its good to see so many people talk about sanmargam, some of my views:-
I beleive this story would help reveal answer for your question:-
A child and her mother had agreed to play a game(in tamil-KANNABOOCHI), as per game plan the child's eyes are closed and mother hidden. Child had to locate her mother, With time on all way of scrolling around the room the child can't find her mother where she is.
WHEN THE CHILD STARTED CRYING VIGOROUSLY IN SEARCH, THE MOTHER RUSHED IMMEDIATELY AND GRAPPED,HUGGED AND KISSED THE CHILD OPENED HER EYE LASH SAYING IAM HERE.
Keeping the moral of this story,
1.Sanmargam today is misleaded by lot of people as everyone has his own view on it.
2.It's as simple as it is,
all of our eyes are closed by MAYA and we all don't know what we are, where we are from, where do we go, what is god, etc., so its better to cry sincerely like a child(instead of talking unnecessary about god shape,jothi shape-meaning about it.
3.Even this world's greatest spiritual leader can't say much about god as same been said to us by my guru VALLALAR,
4.As per vallalar's word, Sanmargi never dies and the idea of following sanmargam principles
is to live for ever with glory/graceful GOD.
Basis above words from my guru its very clear, we all are practising to become
sanmargi and have not become sanmargi as of now.
5.Any player is good until he stick to his target. Our target is GOD and nothing else, its better to keep quite and to head strong and steady towards our GGGGGGGOOOOOOOOOOOOOODDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD,,,,,,
May god bless all living beings,,,,,
G.Ashok kumar
Sanmargam well wisher,

It is a Hide and Seek Game

Kid’s eyes are closed in this story. This kid knows very well that his eyes are covered with a cloth. This kid also knows that his mother is somewhere here only. We are in more pathetic situation than this kid. We think that we can see all and our eyes are always wide open but in reality our eyes are actually covered with not only one layer but with nine layers.
We are not sure about where the God is either.
Our Vallalar urges us to get our topmost layer be removed first. He also says that once this layer is removed, all other eight layers will vanish themselves very soon.
How to remove this topmost layer?
Well, we have to generate heat in our body.
How can we generate heat in our body?
We actually have two ways to do this.
Way 1: Go to forest or hill and do meditation for several hundred thousand years.
Way 2: Pray for God and think only about God while you pray.
How can we compare these two ways?
Let us say that the way 1 generates x amount of heat at y amount of time.
It is amazing to mention that way 2 generates heat 100 million times more than the heat we get in way 1 at the same y amount of time.
So, let us all keep praying until our layer goes away. We should also keep questioning who God is and who I am until we ourselves get a convincing answer.
All I mentioned here are from the last speech (“Perubadesam”) of our Vallalar gaven to the public.
K. Ganesan

26/5/07
Dear Sundara Kannan,
I had sent a mail to your yahoo mail id a week back. May be due to your busy schedule you have not replied to it. Please help me by providing some information to it.
I will be greatful to you if I get a reply from you.
Also please provide me with some address where the sanmarga classes are conducted in chennai.
In Spiritual Communion Always
S. Ananthakrishnan

Arutperum jothi Thaniperum karunai
Kindly let us know what teh nine layers are and steps to overcome teh same

Quote:
I believe that god can't be in Idol form,rather formless. But I am unable to understand how why Jothi can be worshipped as god?.
This question is haunting my mind for very long, any response will be appreciated.
Dear brother,
May peace be upon you by the Grace of The Most Merciful Arut Perum Jothi Andavar!
Well.You are unable understand on Jothi! Yes!!This is the common problem for many of us.Please worship not the Jothi as you mean it.Even, an Idol-worship is rather better than worshiping God as in the form of 'Light'.That is what you mean to say 'Jothi'.Isn't it?
His Holiness, Peruman Vallalar Avarkal ( May the peace be upon Him)never used the word 'arut perum oli'(Light)to attribute the bounty of The Holy Name to The Almighty God.
Many of us thing that we see light.No!No one can see 'light'.It is the light which helps us to see objects in front of us.We see an oil lamp or an electric lamp, and say that we see 'light'.No! That is our ignorance!That is why His Holiness, Peruman Vallalar Avarkal(May Peace be upon Him) keeps on remainding us to have Sath-Visaram!
Now, you may ask me that don't we see light.The simple answer is yes.We don't, and we can't see 'light'.Yes, dear! What we see is that the shining of light on an object. That is all.Light cannot be seen when it travels through vacuum.Yes.No one can see a ray of light with our naked eye when it passes through an empty space.But, we see a ray of light when it passes through air or water.Why? Yes!
What we see is that shining of the air particles(molecules)in the path of the light due to the reflection of part of the light energy on the air molecules.That reflected light reaches our eyes helping us to see the shining beam of light.It is not the ray of light or light.It is the light that helps us to see the molecular shining as the light energy falls on them.Well.
Light is a form of energy.We know that energy can neither be created nor be destroyed,but one form of energy can be transformed into another form. Therfore, please read more to know about light in any Physics book, if you have any doubt in it.May The Most Graceful Jothi bless you with a deeper insight on light so that you can understand at leat a fraction of Jothi.
The truth is that,if we are able to see even that fraction of fraction of Jothi as mentioned by His Holiness, Peruman Arut Prakasa vallalar Avarkal, then I could openly proclaim that we are really blessed abundantly.That is what we need to have all time Sath Visaram in order to develop the The Most graceful Jothi in us.
Even to understand about the properties of light, we need to spend several days with books and discussion in a laboratory.Then, you think of 'Jothi'. Sages/Saints/Monks spend several births to rejoice in it.The real taste is clearly explained in Arutpa. Many Sages got it; but mostly their experiences were expressed by others mechanically with beautiful words. That is all. such expressions could not be natural and clear to all in all time.
On the other hand, His Holiness,Arut prakasa Vallalar Avarkal(May the peace be upon Him) was blessed,is being blessed and will be blessed to be placed in a special devine platform to attain the highest spiritual level to experience the Graceful Nature of The Almighty God, and to express all His Holy Experience in a divine literature,called Arutpa.His Holiness, Arut Prakasa Vallalar Avarkal might have spent so many births with full of paropakaram to attain this God's destiny.That is why, His Holiness,Arut prakasa Vallalar Avarkal(May the peace be upon Him) does not want us spend so many births to suffer and get inflicted with untold pains and material worries.But,His Holiness,Arut prakasa Vallalar Avarkal(May the peace be upon Him) prayed The Most Merciful Almighty for us to be blessed with deathless life as he got it.And the Most Graceful Almight God also blessed His Holiness,Arut prakasa Vallalar Avarkal(May the peace be upon Him) to help us though Arutpa and the method of practising soulful services to all Living Kigndom,i.e the so called Jeevakarunya vozhulukkam.
Light can not be seen. But, you can see it when it shines on objects. Similarly, God also can not be seen. But, you can see God when the living things are happy by your jeevakarunya services.And, by that service only, you can see/experience the Graceful Jothi whish is eternal nature in you and in all living things, and that is nothing but the Most Graceful Almighty God(Arut Perum Jothi Andavar)who can do anything in no time by His Will, and He is the only Owner of this Whole Universe that is seen and unseen ,the only Generator, organiser,Destroyer and so on.
Dear Friend,I hope you could understand now that worshiping Jodi does not mean worshing Light,but it is the real jeevakarunya services to see The only God in you and everywhere outside.That God can not be seen,but that God's existence/reflection can be seen when living things are happy by your soulful services to them. This is called Jodi Vazhipau.That Jodi,the omnipresent and omnipotent is there in all spaces and time, and that, no one can see HIM by any means; but only through Jeevakarunyam as shown by His Holiness,Arut prakasa Vallalar Avarkal(May the peace be upon Him) by the Grace of the Almighty God Arut Perum Jothi Andavar for all the living beings to be blissful in all the worlds.
Arut Perum Jothi Arut Perum Jothi
Thanipperum Karunai Arut Perum Jothi
Anbudan Thiruvarul Thunaiyal Durai

Respected Sir Mr.
Yes your (Our) doubt is correct.
Doubt:-I believe that god can't be in Idol form,rather formless. But I am unable to understand how & why "Jothi" can be worshipped as god?.
This question is haunting my mind for very long, any response will be appreciated.
Now we have to know that What was told by His Holiness Vallalar
about “STATE OF GOD”?
IN HIS HOLINESS’s MARGA,
The truth of GOD is that “INSIDE EXPERIENCE”.
From the above statement of His Holiness,
Each and ever person is in position to realize the State of God by individualy.
Further HIS HOLINESS SAID;
“ IF ‘VISARA SANGALPAM’ which is in the form of COMPASSION is attained on overflowing DISCIPLINE, SIMPLICITY comes to us.
At that moment, KNOWLEDGE comes on understanding THE TRUTH OF GOD.
Therefore, one has to practice COMPASSION without interruption.
Therefore, as per the Doctrine of the His Holiness, We can ascertain the “State of God” only on fulfill of Discipline. Therefore, we are to practice COMPASSION continuously with Common out look.
When we attain and get True Knowledge, at the same time, we also get “Eternal Life”.
We have to note another a important point of Principle of His Holiness.
That is :
HIS HOLINESS VALLALAR SPOKE;
" Till, You have not realized the doctrine of My marga Suddha Sanmargam,
that is,
you do not attach any importance to any thing available here.
You pray to only the GOD, leaving all the practice
( according to Religion and Caste) which are basis
for attachment."
IN TAMIL;
சுத்த சன்மார்க்கத்தின் உண்மை “அக அனுபவமே”.
அவ்வனுபவத்திற்கு “கருணையே” முதற்சாதனமாக உள்ளது.
“கருணையை” விருத்திச் செய்ய தடையாய் உள்ளது சமய ஏற்பாடு, ஜாதி ஏற்பாடு மற்றும் சாஸ்திரம், வருணம், உலக பழக்க வழக்கங்கள். மேலும், அந்த ஒரே “கடவுளின் நிலை”யைப் படிப்பால் அறியக்கூடியதாகவும் அல்லது அப்படியே படித்து மனப்பாடமாக்கிக் கொண்டவரின் பேச்சினாலும் அறிய கூடியதாகவும் இல்லை.
“சுத்தசன்மார்க்கத்தில்” கடவுளின் நிலையறிவது எப்படியெனில் என வள்ளற்பெருமான் குறிப்பிடுகையில்:-
“ஒழுக்கம் நிரம்பி, கருணையே வடிவாக நிற்கும் “விசார சங்கல்பம்” உண்டானால், நாம் தாழுங்குணம் வரும். அத்தருணத்தில் திருவருட் சத்தி பதிந்து அறிவு விளங்கும். ஆதலால், இடைவிடாது கருணை நன்முயற்சியில் பழகல் வேண்டும்.”

திரு பாஸ்கரன் அம்பலவாணன் அவர்கள் தொடுத்த வினாவிற்கு ஒரே விடை.,வள்ளல் பெருமானார் விளக்கை வைத்து ஒளி வழிபாடு செய்யும்படி சொல்ல வில்லை .கடவுளைப் பற்றி யாராலும் விளக்கம் சொல்லமுடியாது என்பதே வள்ளலாரின் தீர்கமான முடிவு. நாம் தினமும் நமது ஆன்மாவே சபையாகவும் அதன் உள் ஒளியே பதியாகவும் கண்டு ஆறு வேளையும் வணங்கவேண்டும்.ஆண்டவன் உருவமா,அருவமா,உருஅருவமா இவை ஒன்றும் இல்லை.
உருவாய் அருவாய் உரு அருவாய் இவை ஒன்றும் அல்லீர் வாரீர். கீர்த்தனைப் பகுதியில் வள்ளலார் பாடி இருப்பது.